Putting the Puzzle Together: Madame Curie's Turn

By Madame Curie

A few days ago, my husband and I were discussing the Kinsey scale. I have traditionally placed myself as a 4, since I have been attracted to two people in my life - him and my high-school girlfriend - and am generally physically more attracted to female than to male anatomy. However, Mr. C pushed me on this, causing me to recall a number of other things that I had not previously considered. As such, I think it is probably only fair to him that I go through the same analysis that he has. In so doing, I will note at the onset that I am going to be far less explicit in my writing than Mister C was. I am also not going to do a "Pieces of the Past" series, because it would violate the privacy of far too many people.

As a refresher, the Kinsey scale is as follows:

0 Exclusively heterosexual 0
1 Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual 1
2 Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual 2
3 Equally heterosexual and homosexual 3
4 Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual 4
5 Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual 5
6 Exclusively homosexual 6

As my husband did, I will also employ the Klein grid to characterize my sexuality in various aspects of my life.

(1) Sexual Attraction: To whom are you sexually attracted?

I am going to assume that they mean "physically" here, which is a difficult distinction to be made since, for me, sexual feelings are fairly intimately tied with emotional connectiveness. Without question, I am physically 'sexually attracted' only to women, and (aside from Mister C) have actually been physically repulsed and nauseated by any and every man I have kissed or been intimate with. So, I am giving this one a 6, with the very, very notable exception of my husband.

(2) Sexual Behavior: With whom have you actually had sex?

I am going to rephrase this as "With whom have you actually had intimate physical activity with where you enjoyed said physical activity?" I give myself a 3 for this one - equal men and women.

(3) Sexual Fantasies: About whom are your sexual fantasies?

I don't much think about physical anatomy of the person I am with in my fantasies - I generally only think about the emotions at play, and those drive the sexual feelings. However, the one notable exception is in my sexually-related dreams, where I exclusively dream physically about women. Always. Additionally, the thought of male anatomy in a sexual fantasy for me has the effect of cooling my libido faster than a -80 C freezer. So, this is probably going to have to be a 6 as well.

(4) Emotional preference: Who do you feel more drawn to or close to emotionally?

Women and gay men. I've almost never felt emotionally drawn to a straight man. Or a traditionally "masculine" men. Those guys just are off-putting to me. Part of me has to wonder whether my emotional attraction to gay men has been a sort of subconscious defense mechanism to avoid becoming physically involved. I do know that the times that I thought I was physically attracted to a straight guy, when he acted on it I quickly figured out that I wasn't really attracted to him.

I count the "gay men" in this group as making me "incidentally heterosexual". Thus, this one codes as a 5.

(5) Social preference: Which gender do you socialize with?

Women and my husband: 5.

(6) Lifestyle preference: In which community do you like to spend your time? In which do you feel most comfortable?

I'm comfortable in both heterosexual and homosexual communities. So this is a 3.

(7) Self-identification: How do you label or identify yourself?

The short answer to this one is that I don't tend to label or identify myself. But, if I am being honest with myself (which is hard on this topic), I would have to say that I more identify with being gay than straight. Well, much more, actually. Its not so much my husband's masculine nature or body that I am attracted to as his emotional and intellectual connection with me. But I can't deny that physically and emotionally speaking, I have tended to hang out with gay guys and hope that nothing physical happens, or hang out with girls and not mind if anything happens. So, this again is probably a 6.

In terms of physical attraction, I would say that I am a 6 - exclusively homosexual. Luckily, I am not repulsed by my husband. I have felt repulsion towards men many times in the past, and it is not something that I would ever, ever, ever want to associate with him. However, I do recognize that a large part of that attraction is the emotional and intellectual bond that we share, which fuels the physical attraction. There are also... other things that come into play that would not come into play for anyone else. In terms of emotional attraction, I am probably a 5 - predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual.

Given that I am emotionally and physically attracted to my husband, the number matters much less than the actual truth that our marriage is outstanding. Until, of course, he starts residency and I don't see him for days on end. Or until he falls in love with another man. Although I recognize that there may come a day in the future when we are unhappy, or when either of us is no longer the other's "exception," the best I can do is enjoy today, hope for tomorrow, and do my best to stay emotionally attached to my husband in the future.

I don't want to trade today's happiness, just to "protect" myself from a potential future heartache.

Mixed Orientation Marriage - Squared

By Madame Curie

Sometimes, my husband will understands me better than I understand myself.

Last night, Mister Curie and I had a long conversation about our marriage and the role that sexual orientation plays in it. I had been expressing the concern that, with the fluctuations in the Kinsey scale that naturally occur over time, there would come a time when the idea of kissing me would be repulsive to him. This seems to be a not-uncommon occurrence in many mixed-orientation marriages (MOMs). He explained that he had never been repulsed by me physically, although at times (particularly at the early stages of our marriage) he has been frequently less interested in love-making than I. He then flipped the question to me, asking what I expected the outcome would be if my Kinsey scale shifted rightward again. I started answering the question.

And then... it hit me.

I finally grasped what the "unknown fear" in my future was. I conceptualized what I was worried he would feel towards me.

Before I joined the LDS Church, I was exclusively attracted to women. And I was grossed out when I was physically/sensually involved with any guy. I had forgotten (blocked?) that from my memory. I had forgotten how repulsed and nauseous I often felt while making out with my ex-boyfriends. I had forgotten how those experiences weren't something I had looked forward to with men. They were things that I endured because it was expected, but I never liked it.

I had forgotten how worried I was in the early days of our relationship that I wouldn't want to kiss Mr. C (sorry, honey!). I remember that now. I specifically remember that I was consciously worried about his trying to kiss me when we went on our first road trip together to the Hill Cumorah Pageant, because I didn't think I could without being grossed out again.

Amazingly to me, I actually really liked kissing him - I was surprised by that.

I was also worried on our honeymoon whether I would suddenly stop desiring him. In the past, anticipating the sexual activity was always so much more powerful than actual kissing or touching with men - making out with my boyfriends was always either boring or nauseating. And when the real stuff started, I would always, always, always be repulsed.

Mr. C got an email last night from a fellow MoHo who has been following our blog, and in his response to him, Mr. C wrote:

Navigating our MOM is sure to be an interesting experience, although as I'm still coming out to myself I haven't had to think too much about it yet. Our MOM, while similar to other MOMs in many ways, may also be unique because my wife is lesbian. She describes her sexuality as being incidentally sexual, but from her stories she is essentially only attracted to females (had a girlfriend in high school) and has been repulsed by most men she has dated. I am her exception. She was a convert to the church in college and church dogma convinced her to date only men and she convinced herself that she was becoming more heterosexual. She did not tell me that she was attracted to women until after we had been married for some time...

She claims that she highly suspected I was gay while we were dating, but that it was confirmed to her within the first year of our marriage... She thought it was awesome because she had always wanted to be married to a gay man. Now she is facing the fear that when you marry a gay man, you also face the possibility of only being a "place holder" until the right man comes along. I am gay, but I am attracted to my wife (she is quite possibly my exception as well, or it may be that when I become emotionally close to a person, my feelings of attraction follow). I was never repulsed by women, I just wasn't interested in them very much.

Have you ever had those moments where you are trying desperately to understand something about yourself, and then someone else explains you to you? This email did that for me.

I hope that he doesn't suddenly become repulsed by me. I hope I am truly his exception.

Fear

By Madame Curie

I don't like to discuss my feelings publicly until I understand their source. This is the reason I wrote a post, published it, and then took it down earlier this week. Shortly after publishing it, I was struck by an overwhelming sense of fear - fear of my husband, fear of the world, fear of everything. I couldn't post a blog article saying how happy I was when I was feeling so incredibly afraid. I nearly deleted this entire blog.

This has been the story of my week - elation to terror, cycling round and round.

The inquiry into Mr. C's sexual orientation isn't a new development. We've talked about his attraction to men since before we were married. He talks about some of these things in his mission journals, which I have read and discussed with him. And, he has had other experiences that he has shared with me over the years. None of this is new or earth-shattering. The conversation has gotten pretty intense in the last several months, since we have both undergone trials to our faith. He has realized that there is a side to himself that has been largely unexplored due to Mormon teachings on the subject. None of the discussions we've had have made me uncomfortable or caused me to question his love or commitment. We have an incredibly secure emotional and physical connection, unlike anything I have ever experienced in my life.

I realized yesterday that the real "fear" I have is more in his "coming out". It doesn't matter whether he is attracted to men; I actually find that sexy. But I do care - probably too much - what others think of me. While this blog is mostly anonymous, this is not entirely the case. Mr. C's brother, a friend of his from college and her wife, some of our ward members, and several college friends of mine read this blog. There are also the bloggernacle connections I have made: Faithful Dissident, Andrew S, Adam F, FireTag, and others I have been following for over a year. When I read their posts and comments, they each have a distinct voice in my mind. To the extent that this is possible in an online community, I know them and respect their opinions.

Sometimes I think I'm not really cut out for blogging. I'm far too sensitive, and my posts and comments invariably deal with personal stories and emotions more than with fundamental truths or objective intellectual inquiry. The topic of sexuality is particularly difficult for me to discuss publicly, because I have many wonderful and conflicting thoughts and emotions tied up in it. As much as I recognize my husband's need to reach out and hear stories and anecdotes that might help him understand himself, I'm nevertheless terrified at having someone invalidate our experiences.

I have been in psychotherapy now for several years, dealing with repercussions of an abusive childhood combined with a serious psychiatric disorder (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder). When I first started with a therapist, I was afraid of sharing with her my childhood experiences, for fear that she wouldn't believe me. There I stood, an 20-something, accomplished, intelligent woman, with several degrees from high-profile universities and an excellent, fulfilling career. How could I tell her about the neglect I suffered as a child? About the horrors I saw between my parents? Or the emotional manipulation my dad subjected me to? How on earth would she believe that an accomplished woman like me could have come from a situation so devoid of physical support or love?

Sometimes I feel the same with this blog. We share our experiences here, and sometimes I'm afraid to hear back, "I don't believe you." Sexuality is one of those things that makes me particularly nervous about hearing feedback about, because its clear my husband and I don't fall into stereotypes. "But... you're happily married and have a child. Its not possible that you and your spouse are only attracted to members of the same sex and to each other" or "If you were really physically attracted to only men/women, you never would have been able to get married." I feel the need to justify myself where I know that I don't need to. Feelings are what they are, and someone else's judgment as to whether or not they are valid doesn't really affect the person who experiences them.

So, I guess what I am saying here is... be gentle. Please remember that these are two, very real people who write these posts. And that one of them is still just an awkward, anxious girl, fearful of invalidation.

Coming Out

By Mister Curie

“Coming Out” is typically thought of as the process of revealing one’s non-heterosexual sexual orientation. The DAMU has co-opted the phrase “Coming Out” from the LGBT community to refer to revealing one’s disaffection with the church. Both terms suggest a period of time of hiding in the closet behind culturally accepted norms (such as a heterosexual orientation or believing the church is “True”) when one no longer believes that “norm” applies to oneself, but then seeking the freedom and self-affirmation by revealing one’s sexual orientation or true beliefs. For me, the two definitions of “coming out” are closely tied to each other.

I was a typical TBM (30 year old returned missionary, married in the temple for nearly 6 years with a 3 year old son). I was raised with the conservative outlook espoused by much of the intermountain west, with all of its biases and narrow-minded (I dare say even homophobic) views. Moving to the East coast for school challenged many of my conservative views and I like to think that I became much more progressive and open-minded. However, I believed the church was “True” and led by a modern Prophet of God. Prop 8 came and went without me worrying too much about it. DW and I followed a blog of a person who really struggled with the church’s stance on Prop 8, which led us to have a discussion between ourselves. While I no longer necessarily believed it was appropriate for the church to be politically active on the issue, had I been in CA, I would have voted with the Church on the issue because a Prophet of God told me to.

Then, one day, DW told me that she no longer believed in the Restoration as taught by the church (those who have followed this blog for a while are familiar with her journey). It was very difficult and heart-wrenching to have her "deny the faith", so to speak. I was distraught for a couple of weeks. However, I love my wife very much and I very much value her judgment and insight. I decided that I should do some research into the history of the church, as she had done. My belief system and testimony quickly came crashing down. From that wreckage, I sought to understand who I really am and what I believe. That is the journey I am still on. Without the church-imposed beliefs, I soon recognized a pattern in my life suggesting that I am not strictly heterosexual, but my belief system had kept me from recognizing that pattern for what it was. However, my sexuality didn’t match the stereotypes or labels I had been raised with. I didn’t identify with the LGBT counterculture that I believed defined homosexuality. I sought out the stories of others in an attempt to understand my own. I read some MoHo blogs, corresponded with a DAMU-associated gay, heterosexually married Mormon, called an Elder from my mission who was now “out” and homosexually married, and of course talked with my wife. I soon recognized that people did not fit the stereotypes I had narrowly constructed behind LGBT labels and in many ways I am still unsure of how to label myself. I don’t necessarily feel that I am defined by homosexuality, heterosexuality, or bisexuality. It is just my-sexuality. I want to explore my-sexuality and who I am in a safe and constructive manner. Participating in this blog is one attempt at that.

Hearing stories from others, it seemed that many people struggled with reconciling their sexual orientation with the teachings of the LDS church. I recognized a recurring theme that a MoHo’s sexual orientation often led to their disaffection. So why was it that I was barely aware of my non-heterosexual orientation until after my disaffection? I am questioning now, but I think that I am bisexual. Bisexuality has allowed me to focus on my heterosexual feelings within my LDS belief system and ignore my homosexual feelings. I, unlike many MoHos, was not made painfully aware of my homosexual feelings because I had heterosexual feelings I could explore. I had several fulfilling relationships with girlfriends and of course have a wonderful, fulfilling marriage to DW. I never felt untrue to myself or my sexual orientation in pursuing those relationships. Any homosexual feelings that I chose not to pursue were easily ignored due to my LDS church belief system, as well as the cultural mindset I was raised with. I think being in the church is probably easier for the bisexual than for the homosexual.

This post makes me anonymously “Out” to the world. However, I am not fully “Out” in either sense of the word, LGBT or DAMU. A disaffected sibling and a few other close friends are aware of my disaffection with the church, most are followers of DW’s blog, so I guess I’m “Out” in the LGBT sense of the word to you now. To the rest of the world and my family, however, I still attend church weekly and faithfully fill my calling and appear heterosexual. I am beginning to realize that coming out is not a single event, but a process, repeated over and over again in a variety of circumstances and to a variety of people. For me, it is also a process that must be repeated to the same people about different aspects of coming out, LGBT and LDS. Somewhere in the process, however, I guess I need to understand where I stand and come out to myself. My upcoming series of blog posts will be an attempt to do that, come out to myself. I look forward to hearing the comments and experiences of others as I seek to understand my-sexuality and my-spirituality better.

Human Sexuality: Identity- or Incidence-based?

By Madame Curie

I am have been torn for a long time now between whether or not I should take this blog in the direction that this post inevitably will. A juxtaposition of events - specifically, an internet conversation at Main Street Plaza; discovery of the blog Evolution of a Lesbian (thanks, Faithful Dissident!); and a conversation between my husband, Mister Curie, and I - prompted me to finish this post, which has been a long time in the works. The topic is that of sexual identity.

A recent blog post by Andrew S over at Main Street Plaza evolved into an unexpected discussion of the label "Same-Sex Attracted" for non-heterosexual Mormons. While Andrew argued for the inherent value of labels as a means of dealing with life, I argued against their use.

I really hate labels, especially labels associated with human sexuality. However, I simultaneously think that such labels can be important and useful during the process of sexual self-identity. These two contradictory emotions war within me whenever the topic of sexuality arises. I think the reason for this is because I don't self-identify with any of the labels, although I feel secure and confident in my own sexuality.

I am sensually attracted to female anatomy, and I find male anatomy fairly repulsive. This has pretty much always been the case since I was an adolescent, with the notable exception of my husband, who I do find attractive. I had a rather traumatic experience with a college boyfriend that really brought home the male anatomy repulsion. The obvious conclusion would be that I am a lesbian. The problem, though, is that I don't like the companionship of most women, but neither do I like masculine guys. In fact, I would much rather spend all my days comfortably with a gay man than with most women. Oddly enough, most of the guys I ever dated turned out to be gay.

So, how does all of this tie in with distaste towards the SSA/SGA label? I mean, clearly I would be one of those that the church would say was SSA, but "lucky" because I was incidentally heterosexual enough to find my DH. My distaste of the SSA label derives from the comparison of my experience in understanding my sexual identity, and that of my DH.

In the past several months, my husband has started the process of understanding his own sexual identity. He would like to explore this issue by starting as a regular contributor on this blog. I always thought that the sexual self-identity process was one that most adolescents and young adults dealt with. The difference, though, is that while he has had numerous positive non-heterosexual experiences, he has never allowed himself to question what that meant from an identity perspective. This is because he knew what that would mean for him from a church perspective, and was terrified to label himself. In contrast, because I didn't feel like specific labels were "dangerous" or that I should or had to be attracted to one sex or the other, I felt much more comfortable examining my sexual identity from an early age. I never felt a compulsion or fear of labeling myself as lesbian or bisexual, but was instead happy to have incidental sexuality - friend first and sexuality later. While it didn't make my journey of self-discovery a comfortable process, I must say that I would have found it far more difficult to address as a married parent.

I have been amazingly unsurprised by my husband's questioning. I guess if anything, I was more suprised initially to learn that he wasn't gay, since I liked his companionship so much. Our sexual relationship has always been unique, but it has also been satistfying for us both.

All of these things beg the question - Is it worthwhile for my husband to explore his sexual identity? Or is human sexuality more incidental, and we should just thank providence for finding each other? My gut instinct is that he should examine his repressed feelings, journal entries, thoughts, emotions, etc. I had a journey of sexual discovery, and I am far more confident sexually as a result. I feel extremely emotionally and sexually secure in our marriage, and I am not in the least bit threatened by his questioning. In fact, if anything I think I would place him as far more homosexual than heterosexual - and that's fine with me. We are happy in our marriage. We have found a stride that works for us, and I don't see that as changing. Still, there is the age-old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," and each of us worries that addressing DH's sexuality may hurt the good thing we have going for us.

On the other hand, I don't necessarily like the idea of placing labels on each other or even really on this blog. If it helps Mister Curie to understand and process by writing down his confusion, and getting the support of others who may have had similar experiences, then I think it is great. The problem is that I don't want the blog to be judged based on the labels we do or don't choose to give ourselves. Does that make sense?

Thoughts?